"OUR PARTY WILL CONTINUE ITS WAR AGAINST FASCISM WITH DETERMINATION IN ITS 53RD YEAR OF STRUGGLE"
"We attach importance to the masses organizing their own politics independent of the politics of the ruling classes and moreover emerging as a power. In this sense, we find the call of the working class, laborers, women and the youth of the people to the Fields on May 1st valuable and meaningful, especially in the Taksim Square on May 1st in Istanbul."
- First of all, could you introduce yourself?
- My name is Özgür Aren. I am a member of the TKP-ML CC, Political Bureau.
- Founded on April 24, 1972, your party is leaving behind its 52nd year of struggle. On this occasion, we would like to interview you on behalf of your party. Before moving on to my questions, what would you like to say about this first?
- Yes, it is easy to say that we have left behind half a century of struggle. Although this is a short period of time in terms of the struggle of societies and classes, it is also a very long period of time. We respectfully bow to the lives and memories of all our comrades, especially İbrahim Kaypakkaya, the founding leader of our party, Ali Haydar Yıldız, the first immortal of our people's army, and Meral Yakar, the first immortal of our communist women's organization, who became stars in these 52 years. I would also like to express our feelings of gratitude for the efforts of hundreds and thousands of our comrades who have been veterans, imprisoned and tortured in this costly struggle of more than half a century.
We salute the militants of our party, our people's army, our communist women's organization and our komsomol who are currently in struggle, especially in the geography of Turkey, who are imprisoned in prisons and resist against the torture of isolation and torture, and who are in all areas of struggle in the Middle East and Western Europe, and we celebrate their 53rd year of struggle.
And we thank you for giving us this opportunity.
- We thank you. Your party had held its 1st Congress in 2019. What would you like to say about your work in general since then?
- Yes, our party held its Congress after a long period of time. It must be stated that our 1st Congress is of historical importance in terms of our party history. The current meaning of this -as we expressed on various occasions during that period- was the reorganization of our party by defending the party rule and the principles of the proletariat against the attacks of the enemy on the party from the outside and the putschist liquidationism from within. However, in addition to this current importance, another important point was that it created our party program, which had always been postponed in the history of half a century of struggle. This program was created by analyzing and synthesizing the programmatic views of our founding leader Ibrahim Kaypakkaya and the current situation of Turkish society and class struggle. This was a historically important development in terms of our party history.
In connection with this, what was also important for our party was that it analyzed the situation of Turkish society at present and stated that new contradictions were added to the main contradictions. The congress emphasized that the national question, ecological struggle, patriarchy, etc. had become the main contradictions in Turkish society.
In addition, the party charter was updated with the lessons learned from the putschist liquidationist process. And for example, various administrative provisions were developed based on the scientific approach that patriarchy would also affect the ranks of the communist party. A clear and concrete organizational approach to women and sexual identities was put forward.
Our congress announced the establishment of the Communist Women's Union (KKB), which is also of historical importance for our party and the class struggle in Turkey.
All these steps are important in our view. And we have seen this importance in the developments in the class struggle in Turkish society after the Congress. We experienced it in the practice of class struggle.
"IT IS CLEAR THAT EVERY VICTORY AGAINST THE PATRIARCHY WILL STRENGTHEN THE REVOLUTIONARY STRUGGLE AND PUSH FASCISM BACK!"
- You said that the Communist Women's Union was founded. We see that massacres against women, hate rhetoric against sexual identities and murders are increasing in Turkey, which is not independent from the policies of the ruling party. For this reason, could you elaborate a little more on what you have said above?
- Considering the half-century history of our party, we must say that it has a comprehensive deficiency in this regard. Due to this deficiency, our party gave its self-criticism against the influence of patriarchy in our ranks not only in discourse but also in practice-organizationally and declared that it would handle women's work as an autonomous organization. Thus, the devoted work carried out by our women and LGBTI+ comrades since the 8th Conference came to life organizationally in practice.
In the conditions of the class struggle in our geography and the ongoing crisis of the Turkish state and the ruling classes, the alliance with the patriarchy aims to make the man the defender of his own class interest as the oppressor between the proletariat and the oppressed classes in the irreconcilable contradiction between the bourgeoisie and the proletariat. With the emergence of class societies, the gender role of man as oppressor and woman as oppressed is reproduced in the interests of the bourgeoisie. The class struggle continues in this field as well, directly or implicitly, but at full speed.
In parallel with the sharpness of the contradictions, it is a fact that exploitation, oppression and massacres against women are higher, and an average of three women are murdered a day. Although the Turkish state officially propagandizes that the number of femicides has decreased, the data - as in many other issues - shows that, for example, 8 women can be murdered by men in one day. This has as much to do with the class struggle as with the reality of class society shaped by some historical, social and cultural characteristics of our geography. This situation causes the exploitation and massacres against women, especially class, national and sexual, to be more dimensional due to the policy of the Turkish ruling classes that strengthens fascism with patriarchy.
Turkish fascism continues its exploitation, oppression and massacres against the working class and laborers through the strengthening of patriarchy among the working people, the gender-based division of labor and the oppression of the female gender, harassment, rape and violence and murder. Women of oppressed nations and nationalities, especially Kurdish and Syrian immigrant women, are also subjected to national oppression and are directly or indirectly targeted by fascism. Considering the ongoing existence of male-female relations in social production and the family institution, it should not be forgotten that this struggle is continuous.
For this reason, the struggle against patriarchy is one of the essential tasks of the class struggle, and moreover, it is clear that this struggle occupies a very, very important place in the class struggle of our geography. It is also clear that every victory against patriarchy in the ranks of our party and the masses of the people will strengthen the revolutionary struggle and set fascism back.
Therefore, our party had to develop not only an ideological and political attitude towards this contradiction, which is extremely acute for the class struggle in our geography, but also take a concrete organizational step. As I mentioned earlier, our party had an incomplete approach in this regard, and we have taken a step towards eliminating this deficiency with a concrete organizational planning.
The Communist Women's Union did not only declare its foundation. As an autonomous organization affiliated to our party, it also held its program and statute congress and presented it to our party. In our opinion, this step is also an important step for our party and the communist revolutionary movement in our geography.
"When we act in a planned and programmed manner and lock on to the target, we get the results we want!"
- During this period, you celebrated the 50th anniversary of the founding of your party. In some areas of activity, these celebrations stood out with their massiveness and enthusiasm. What would you like to say about this?
- Yes, as you emphasized, two years ago we celebrated the 50th anniversary of the founding of our party. Not only that. As it will be remembered, last year was the 50th anniversary of the murder of our founding leader İbrahim Kaypakkaya by the Turkish state. Our party handled both the 50th anniversary of its founding and the 50th anniversary of the murder of our leader comrade as a campaign. Despite some shortcomings, we think that we handled these campaigns in accordance with our party's half-century history of struggle and ideological line.
Despite the heavy repression of fascism in our country, we handled our 50th anniversary with various activities in forms and contents appropriate to the conditions of the day. We celebrated it with military actions and masses in the Middle East. Again, we organized widespread mass work and activities in our Western Europe area.
On this occasion, we would like to convey our thanks through you once again to the hard work of our militants and supporters who carried out activities for the 50th anniversary of the founding of our party. We also greet once again all our revolutionary friends who sent messages and contributed to the 50th anniversary of the founding of our party.
Last year, on the 50th anniversary of the murder of our leader comrade in torture, we commemorated him once again with various slogans in every field. Under the heavy pressure of fascism in our country, we organized commemorations and events in accordance with the conditions. Again, for example, in the Middle East, we handled this process together with military actions and commemoration events. In this area, the Arabic translation of "Selected Writings" was published and distributed in order to introduce and disseminate the views of İbrahim Kaypakkaya to the masses. We also commemorated our leader comrade in Western Europe with widespread mass meetings followed by centralized and mass events.
It can be said that on the occasion of the 50th anniversary of the murder of Comrade İbrahim Kaypakkaya, the widespread and centralized events in many areas were the most massive actions of recent years. On this occasion, we would like to take this opportunity to thank our revolutionary friends from the MKP, with whom we worked together on the basis of unity of action on the 50th anniversary of the murder of our leader comrade. Once again, we greet all our revolutionary friends, especially our trench comrades in the HDBH and KBDH, who participated and contributed to the commemoration of our leader comrade; we congratulate all our comrades and supporters for their efforts and contributions in this process.
As both of our campaigns have shown, when we act in a planned and programmed manner, when we lock on to the target and when we act jointly with our revolutionary friends on the basis of revolutionary action unions, we get the results we want. We attach importance to this revolutionary lesson we have learned from practice.
"THE "STRONG STATE" PROPAGANDA IS MEANINGLESS!"
- During this period you mentioned, there have been important developments affecting the class struggle both internationally and in our geography. How did these developments affect your party activity?
- Yes. For example, there was a worldwide pandemic due to the coronavirus. The ruling classes in the world and in our country declared curfews under the name of "precaution". Of course, these bans, which they imposed on the working class and the people as a measure, were not really measures. Because on the other hand, the working class was forced to work by saying that "the wheels must turn". We still do not know exactly how many people have died due to the pandemic in the world and in our country. In this process, which directly affects our party activity, this is the most important thing. Millions of people around the world have been massacred due to the pandemic, which emerged as a product of capitalism's excessive greed for profit.
It has been clearly seen that capitalism is dragging the whole world and the life on earth to extinction, that human and living life is of no importance for capitalism's greed for profit. Imagine, a virus that has existed in nature for millions of years evolves and becomes lethal due to capitalism's intervention in natural life in order to make more profit. Not only that, millions of people cannot access the vaccine and are once again massacred because science and the health sector have been transformed into instruments of capitalist profit greed. What happened during the pandemic has once again proven that capitalism is a system of exploitation and death for all living beings.
Again last year, we experienced a mass massacre due to the earthquakes on February 6, where 50 thousand people according to official figures, but in reality hundreds of thousands of people blatantly lost their lives. A natural event that could have passed with little damage when necessary precautions were taken, was turned into a complete disaster by the state and the order. With the February 6 earthquakes, the reality of the state became more visible and revealed that all the "strong state" propaganda of the AKP-MHP government was completely hollow. Despite this propaganda, the state, instead of rescuing the people trapped under the rubble for days after the earthquake and delivering aid to those who were waiting for help after the earthquake, made salaams from mosques and organized "aid shows" with live broadcasts on TV programs. What happened during and after the earthquake, especially the fact that those trapped under the rubble were not rescued and left to die, and that instead of conducting search and rescue, the rubble was hastily removed and tenders were organized for new constructions, summarizes the "Turkish Century" of the Turkish state under Erdoğan's rule. The Turkish state continues to massacre the people as in its hundred-year history and continues to prove that it is a state of massacres. The question of what is anti-people and fascism has been seen once again with what happened during and after the February 6 earthquakes.
I would like to express that this period, in which hundreds of thousands of people were massacred in plain sight, was also difficult and intense for our party. On the one hand, the security problems created by the heavy pressure of fascism, on the other hand, the magnitude of the massacre and the scale of the area it affected inevitably affected our activity. Despite this, our comrades were able to develop creative revolutionary solutions. Moreover, although this process inevitably affects our party work, this is not decisive. What was decisive was the massacre that our people were forced to experience and the obligations of the revolutionary movement in the face of this massacre. We must underline that the revolutionary movement in Turkey, in proportion to its power and sphere of influence has tried to fulfill this duty and continues to do so. We must state that this is important, that revolutionaries are the only force that defends the interests of the people and stands by the people. This has been proven once again in practice.
- Shortly after the earthquake, there was a general election process, so to speak, while the debris was still lying around. Could you briefly share your views on the political situation in Turkey on the occasion of the elections? It is known that the Turkish fascism is reorganizing itself through AKP-MHP and the transition to the "presidential system". There is a struggle for power between two camps within the Turkish ruling classes. We saw this in the last general elections. A section calling itself progressive and revolutionary, including the Kurdish national movement, backed the opposition clique of the ruling classes. And in the end, it was announced that the ruling party and AKP won the election. What are your party's views on the developments in this process?
- Yes, as you say, Turkish fascism has reorganized itself. However, we should especially emphasize this here: The Turkish state has not only organized itself against the people in the last period, through the AKP-MHP fascism. It is already an anti-people organization since its foundation. There are many examples of this in the hundred-year history of the republic.
Another important feature of the Turkish state is that it is a semi-colony of imperialism. This status has been decisive in the policies of the Turkish ruling classes.
What makes Erdoğan and his party "different" from his predecessors is that he makes good use of the reorganization of semi-colonial markets with imperialism's reorganization of the international division of labor. The pragmatic nature of Islamist fascism is important in this.
The evaluation of the last half-century of Turkish society and the period of AKP governments, which directed this process in line with the interests of imperialist capital, is not independent from the policies implemented by imperialist capital in the international arena. On the other hand, the developments in the international arena in the coming years directly affect and will affect the policies of the Turkish ruling classes and their spokespersons.
Considering the reality of Turkey, we are not saying that imperialists determined, planned and implemented almost everything in Turkey, which is a semi-colonial market of imperialist monopolies. What we are saying is that AKP and Erdogan is a master merchant in marketing the mass support he gained by using the Islamist discourse to the imperialists. This is why Erdogan was seen as a "useful partner" for the imperialists. In this process, while our people have become poorer (even bourgeois economists state that labor's share of national income has fallen significantly), both the imperialists and the Turkish ruling classes have won. It is known that Erdogan's personal wealth and that of his inner circle has increased enormously in this process.
Turkey's history of the last quarter of a century can be summarized as the years of AKP governments and Erdogan. From the results that have emerged at this stage, it can be stated that the AKP does not play a "simple" "governmental" role for imperialist capital and the Turkish regime. As it is known, the AKP was organized within the "National Vision" line, which was on the opposing wing of the two camps of the Turkish ruling classes and used an Islamist political rhetoric. It is known that before the 2002 General Elections, when AKP was specially supported and organized and won the first elections it entered and established a government on its own, imperialist capital carried out a "road cleaning" of the Turkish ruling classes, especially in the economic field.
"THE REPRESENTATIVES OF THE RULING CLASS CONTINUED THEIR EXPLOITATION AND ADDED TO THEIR PROFITS!"
- You are stating that the ruling party does not have a problem with the founding ideology of the Turkish state in essence, and that it even criticizes some anti-people practices of the past and backs up the masses behind itself, and that this ensures the reorganization of the system, right?
- Yes, this is exactly what we mean. Today, the starting point of the vast majority of approaches that analyze Turkish society on a critical and sometimes revolutionary basis is "pure opposition to AKP". Undoubtedly, these critical approaches are influenced by Kemalism, the founding ideology of the Turkish ruling classes. During the period of the AKP governments, the use of Kemalism as a rusty weapon in the struggle for power by the opposition wing of the ruling classes had an impact on many circles calling themselves revolutionaries.
Although the fact that the revolutionary movement in Turkey was influenced by the ideology of Kemalism, the founding ideology of the Turkish state, and that it could not achieve a revolutionary break with this fascist ideology dates back to earlier times, the discourses of the AKP governments, which define themselves as Islamist, against some aspects of M. Kemal and Kemalism, especially due to their "enlightenment" identity, (and the fact that they gained a certain mass support by using the reaction of these policies of the Turkish fascism on the people) led to the backup of the sections that call themselves opposition behind the bourgeois opposition against the government.
While the rise of the Kurdish national struggle against the policy of national oppression that the Turkish state has been implementing on the Kurdish nation since its foundation has led to a certain questioning of the founding ideology of the Turkish ruling classes against Kemalism, the Islamist discourse of the AKP government has also created an expectation in the Kurdish national movement and led to the pursuit of a policy called the "solution process".
In order to analyze the situation of the Turkish state today and especially the policies of the ruling classes with their power and opposition, and to analyze the policies imposed on the working class and working people on a revolutionary basis, it is necessary to be clear on the issue of Kemalism. This clarity also applies to the AKP government, which today defines itself as "anti-Kemalist".
This is not a generalizationist approach. Kemalism, the founding ideology of the Turkish regime, has a decisive importance in the centuries-old Turkish state tradition. Therefore, the fact that the ruling class clique in power appears to be "anti-Kemalist" with Islamist discourses or propagates itself in this way does not mean that it is on a different ideological ground from the founding ideology of the Turkish regime and that it represents different classes. On the contrary, it means that the founding ideology reproduces itself according to the process by criticizing some of its policies that have been exposed and worn out in the eyes of the masses, rather than the essence and class identity of Kemalism in the hundred-year Turkish regime.
For this reason, it should be known that the founding ideology of the Turkish regime is the representative of all ruling class cliques, both in power and opposition, and in this sense, it represents the class interests of the ruling classes as a whole. The Islamist religious stance and "anti-Kemalist" rhetoric of the AKP governments, which came to power in the last quarter century of the Turkish regime, is not against the class representation of the founding ideology, on the contrary, it even benefits the survival of the order as it enables the opposition parties and organizations representing the middle and petty bourgeoisie to back up the opposition bourgeois clique that defines itself as Kemalist.
Analyzing the last quarter of a century of the Turkish regime and the form it has taken today, and knowing that the policies implemented during the AKP governments do not have an essential contradiction with the class representation of Kemalism, explains why, for example, the comprador big bourgeoisie such as Koç, Sabancı, etc., which were at the forefront in the hundred-year history of the republican regime, are on the side of the AKP governments. During the AKP governments, these representatives of the ruling class continued their exploitation and added to their profits.
Therefore, the anti-Kemalist rhetoric of the AKP, which is in power today, should not be misleading. In this respect, two points must be underlined as a direct consequence of the class character of Kemalism, the founding ideology of the Turkish ruling classes. First, the Kemalist ideology is primarily the enemy of the working class and the people of the Turkish and Kurdish nations, of various nationalities and beliefs. It is the ideology of the ruling classes and is hostile to every progressive-democratic development and practice. Secondly, Kemalist ideology is a collaborator of imperialism. It is acceptance of the semi-colonial conditions of imperialism. Kemalism's "national liberationism" is a big lie. The "full independence" of M. Kemal and all the Turkish ruling class representatives who came after him, and today Erdoğan's "van minut" outbursts against Netanyahu, his "domestic and national" discourses are in reality surrender to imperialist capital and acceptance of semi-colonial conditions.
Knowing these two basic points is decisive in terms of analyzing what the class stance of the Turkish ruling class governments is in reality, no matter what political adjective they call themselves Kemalist, Conservative, Islamist, "Social Democrat" and so on. Since this analysis was not made; in the last general elections, in order to get rid of the AKP, to "breathe a sigh of relief" - except for our party and a small number of revolutionary organizations - the opposition candidate of the ruling classes was supported. That this was not a correct policy was once again seen when the election results were announced.
Therefore, when evaluating the politics of Turkey, it is necessary to evaluate the policies pursued by the ruling class parties on these two bases. Although the AKP governments do not define themselves as Islamist, they have successfully implemented these two fundamental class features of Kemalism. It should be underlined that the discourses of the AKP, which has been in power for the last quarter of a century, have not fundamentally differed from the founding ideology and class interests of the Turkish ruling classes.
"ALL THAT "LOCAL AND NATIONAL" RHETORIC IS MEANINGLESS!"
- In summary, you are saying that the ruling party and Erdoğan are in fact playing an active role in the reorganization of semi-colonial countries in accordance with the international division of labor of imperialism.
- Yes, but we are not the only ones saying this. If we remember, Erdoğan himself declared that he was the "BOP co-chair". Again, in the book "Strategic Depth" written by the one-time Prime Minister of the Turkish state, it was stated that the Turkish state could be used as a "sub-contractor" in the region. And it was used as a subcontractor state in the Syrian civil war.
Many examples can be given about the dependency relationship of the Turkish state with western imperialism. From the recent approval of Sweden's accession to NATO to Erdogan's statements that "NATO is a guarantee of Turkey's security"...
The Turkish state is an outpost of imperialism in our region. Its policy of exploiting the contradictions between imperialists never makes it an independent state. As a matter of fact, in line with this understanding, the Turkish state intervened in the Syrian civil war, directly organized and supported the jihadist gangs, and where these gangs were not enough, it put its own military power into action. It invaded Northern Syria. The aim was to first occupy and then annex the whole region. However, the resistance of the Kurdish nation in the region, especially together with other peoples, prevented the plans of Turkish fascism.
The Turkish state is a state organized against the people both within the border and outside the border in the geography where it is located. It is a member of NATO, the military organization of the imperialists. As a member state of NATO, its army is part of this treaty. It takes orders from the staff of this army!
It is remembered that after the July 15 coup attempt, the air defense systems purchased from Russia were put in storage to show gratitude to Putin for saving Erdogan and to blackmail western imperialism, especially US imperialism. Again, there are bases of this pact in many parts of Turkey. Therefore, all those "local and national" discourses are empty. The source of the misconception that the Turkish state acts in its own independent interests is the Turkish state's policy of exploiting the contradictions between the imperialist camps for its own survival. While this policy of double dealing and blackmail provides the Turkish ruling classes with a certain room for maneuver, the Turkish regime is a part of the imperialist capitalist system and an outpost in our geography. This is the reality.
For the reshaping of the Turkish state in line with the interests of imperialist capital and for the chances of success of the policies pursued by the Turkish ruling classes, which naturally received the mediating share of this reshaping, through the AKP years, the most advanced and conscious sections of society were targeted first. A "total attack" was launched not only in the economic sphere but also against Turkish society as a whole. In this way, measures were taken against possible road accidents in the anti-working class and toiling people policies of the AKP governments.
AKP governments were formed to accomplish this task. Turkey's history of the last quarter century is based on the reshaping of the Turkish market according to the interests of imperialist capital under the leadership of Erdogan, and the Turkish ruling classes' share of imperialist capital's exploitation and plunder of raw materials. The enormous increase in Erdogan's personal wealth and the news of his close circle's entry into the list of world billionaires shows what kind of robbery the people of Turkey are facing in cooperation with imperialist capital.
It must be stated that this transformation of the Turkish market and the Turkish people in the face of imperialist financial capital and the mediating share of the Turkish ruling classes directly determines the social formation of Turkey and has effects on the dynamics of the class struggle. It must be understood that we are talking about a comprehensive transformation/shaping not only in the economic sphere but also in ideology, culture, military industry, sports and arts. The fact that the Republic of Turkey has become increasingly associated internationally with allegations of "money laundering", drug trafficking and mafia organizations is just one of the consequences of this change.
Moreover, this change and transformation took place not only in the economic infrastructure as a result of the reorganization of the Turkish market in line with the international division of labor of imperialist capital, but also, for example, as a product of the rivalry between the imperialist camps and the efforts of the Turkish ruling classes to grab a share in this rivalry, their direct involvement in the Syrian civil war, their occupation of the north of Syria on the one hand (which is also influenced by the Turkish state's perception of Kurdish national gains as a threat to itself) and the admission of millions of Syrian refugees to Turkish territory.
While the occupied territories in Syria were plundered, Syrian refugees were used as cheap labor. Immigrants, especially Syrian asylum seekers, have been subjected to heavy exploitation while at the same time they have become the target of racism and chauvinist aggression. While the Turkish ruling classes receive money from the EU imperialists for asylum seekers and act as the border guard of European imperialism, on the other hand, migrant workers meet the need of Turkish capitalism for cheap labor. While migrant workers are subjected to rampant exploitation, asylum seekers are targeted as responsible for the economic crisis, unemployment, low wages, etc. within the society and chauvinism is fueled.
- These agendas you mentioned are the arguments that the Turkish ruling classes have used very often in the struggle for power in the recent period. These were frequently on the agenda in the general and local elections held a year apart.
- As I have just pointed out, the Turkish state is an imperialist-dependent, anti-people and fascist organization since its foundation. All bourgeois parties act in accordance with this dominant general politics. Some academics have called this the "Contract of Turkishness". In reality, this is the privilege of the oppressor nation (oppressor faith) by the ruling classes with the state apparatus in our multinational country with oppressed nationalities and beliefs. It is the continuation of the national oppression of the Kurdish nation and the oppression of Alevis by the dominant faith. It is outright fascism, racism and chauvinism in the name of the survival of the state. The Turkish ruling classes have agreed on a republican regime as opposed to the caliphate, sultanate, etc., which is now being voiced in some circles. This republic is the fascist republic of the big comprador bourgeoisie, comprador bureaucrat bourgeoisie and big landlords.
Without bringing this common ideological basis that unites the Turkish ruling classes to consciousness, moreover, without determining that "the ideology of Kemalism is fascism", a correct political attitude cannot be developed for the interests of the people and the revolution. As I have just stated, this is what it means to openly or indirectly support the candidate of the bourgeois opposition in the general elections in order to push back the ruling AKP. The history of the Turkish state is full of the policies of the two bourgeois cliques of the ruling classes to back up the anger and reaction of the people against the order for their own class interests.
As a result, the AKP-MHP clique won the general elections. Despite all the hopes of the bourgeois opposition, this result is in line with the class interests of the imperialists and the Turkish ruling classes. Erdogan is an extremely successful representative for both the imperialists and the Turkish ruling classes. There was no reason for them to change him. The problem here is that the people's revolt against the conditions they are forced to live in, their demands for freedom and democracy have been channeled into the bourgeois opposition. It is the promise of a "false spring".
The general elections did not solve the crisis of the ruling classes and even failed to postpone it. At the current stage, they are once again struggling for interests, this time on the occasion of local elections.
"THE REACTION OF THE MASSES IS REAL!"
- By the way, could you briefly share your views on the local elections process?
- The March 31 local elections have been concluded. In general terms, it was announced that the bourgeois opposition party CHP won and the AKP-MHP lost, and this is how the discussions are carried out. In the most general sense, these election results show us that elections will continue to be on the agenda in the struggle for power between the ruling class cliques in the coming period.
In our opinion, the reason why the results of the local elections are being discussed so much is not the "success" of the bourgeois opposition in keeping the municipalities in its hands and adding new ones and "increasing its vote rate", as propagandized. What should be emphasized is the reaction of the broad masses of the people to the bad conditions they are forced into. Especially when it comes to the people, it is seen that the process that is called "economic crisis" but in fact all the cliques of the Turkish ruling classes are adding to their wealth is reflected in the election results.
On the other hand, both before and immediately after the elections, Erdoğan warmed up the terrorist discourse and stated that he was "preparing for a military attack on Kurdistan". The fact that the election results resulted in defeat for the ruling party, on the other hand, means that for the fascist power, this bill will be imposed on the working people in general and the Kurdish nation in particular. The fascist government will not hesitate to increase the dose of racism and chauvinism in order to reverse the decline in its support among the masses. In other words, the coming months will be characterized by aggression inside and outside the borders.
We must also state that the election will not change the agenda of the ruling classes, on the contrary, when it comes to the working class and the people, they will easily put aside their differences and agree on their class interests.
Another point to be noted here is this: The victory of the bourgeois opposition party in the elections will strengthen the practice of the left and even a part of the revolutionary movement to back the bourgeois opposition in the coming period. Of course, the attitude of these parties and organizations towards the elections is not independent of the ideological stance of the classes they represent. However, the practical attitudes of those in the ranks of the people, especially those who call themselves revolutionaries, socialists and even communists, first in the general and then in the local elections, contain important problems.
The fact that general and then local elections were held in the last year has brought the elections to the forefront as a determining factor in the agenda of the masses. This is understandable. Although the turnout in the local elections has fallen, the people's interest in the polls continues. It is mainly the AKP base that does not go to the polls. By not going to the polls or by turning to another Islamist party, the Yeniden Refah Partisi, this mass ensured that the CHP became the first party.
On the other hand, the fact that the elections remain important points to the success of the Turkish ruling classes in maintaining their ideological hegemony over the masses through elections and the ballot box. As long as this ideological domination is not broken, elections will continue to be on the agenda of the class struggle in the coming years.
As long as the masses of the people do not struggle to become an alternative with their own agenda independent of the politics of the ruling classes, it is impossible to eliminate the danger of being backed up by one of them in this ongoing power struggle between the ruling class cliques. To the extent that this perspective is obscured and the means becomes the end, it is inevitable to be backed up by the politics of the ruling classes.
The election agenda is meaningful to the extent that it strengthens the struggle for revolution. In the opposite conditions, as we have seen examples in the last local election agenda, the misconception that the revolutionary struggle is only an electoral struggle emerges, which has no reality and equivalent in the class struggle in our geography.
Even worse, it serves to keep the people's reaction to the order within the order and corresponds to an unforgivable political crime.
"THIS KIND OF PROPAGANDA AIMS ONLY AND ONLY TO UNDERMINE THE PEOPLE'S TRUST IN REVOLUTIONARIES!"
- Speaking of the local elections, there were positive and negative reactions from some circles to your activities in Dersim. Especially the group that broke away from your party reintroduced propaganda such as "they fled", "they surrendered weapons to the enemy" etc. in Dersim. What would you like to say about this?
- As long as our party maintains its persistence and determination in the revolution and revolutionary struggle and takes steps forward, for example in Dersim, there will be black propaganda built on such lies. It is known that the Turkish state has a lot of historical experience in this regard and conducts psychological warfare under the name of "Special Warfare" operations.
However, it is regrettable that this kind of propaganda is made by revolutionaries. Because these discourses do not reflect the truth and it is extremely clear that any propaganda based on lies will not strengthen the revolution and revolutionary ranks and will not benefit the common struggle of the people's forces.
Those who know, know. There is a famous sentence about the "Big Lie" technique attributed to Goebbels, the propaganda minister of Nazi Germany: "If you tell a big enough lie and keep repeating it, people will eventually start to believe it."
These accusations against our Party remind us of this sentence again and again. We would like to repeat once again that this kind of propaganda only aims and serves to undermine the people's trust in revolutionaries.
- If this is the case, why was such propaganda resorted to again and why is it persistently continued?
- The question of why such black propaganda is resorted to again is mainly a question that the organization in question must answer.
But of course we also have an answer. In our opinion, the problem with those who hope to benefit from this kind of black propaganda - and this is the case not only in this example but also in general - is that they cannot face their own mistakes, wrongs, crimes and weaknesses. When these are not targeted, when these are not discussed and put on the table, when this courage cannot be displayed, it is easy to turn to "someone else", "outside". "Not me, but the other". In our opinion, this is what is happening in this organization.
But the facts are revolutionary. What are these facts? As witnessed by the supporters of our party and the revolutionary public opinion, in 2015, a central counter-revolutionary attack was carried out by Turkish fascism and German imperialism against our party. Those who saw this counter-revolutionary attack as an opportunity within our party carried out a conscious and planned coup against the will of our party by "waving a red flag against the red flag" and trampling party law. And instead of having the courage to face this crime, those who committed this crime have engaged in lie rumors, black propaganda and discrediting practices about our various fields of activity and our comrades.
The lie that our comrades in the Dersim region "buried their weapons and fled" or "handed them over to the enemy" was also put forward during this period.
I must say clearly that this or similar propaganda was not on our agenda when they were put forward, nor is it on our agenda now. All these are issues for our party that were discussed, resolved and left behind at our 1st Congress. Our 1st Congress conducted the necessary discussion on the reasons and causes of this attack on the unity of our party and made various public statements. However, despite this approach, the persistent continuation of this black propaganda, especially in Dersim, is aimed at concealing the crime committed against our party. We would like to reiterate that politics based on gossip and lies has no place in revolutionary work. It is grave in terms of the claim of revolutionism to continue this method when it should have been experienced that it does not benefit the revolutionaries and the people.
- You said "it's not on our agenda", but since propaganda is going on outside of you, could you briefly summarize what happened in Dersim region?
- To summarize very briefly; When our comrades in the Dersim guerrilla area came out of the winter basing process and established ties with the party, they learned that the party faced a putschist liquidationist attack and made a situation assessment with our party forces. From that moment on, the task is clear: To meet this internal attack on the will of the party by adhering to law and principles and to reorganize itself! These were determined as the primary revolutionary tasks.
Our comrades in Dersim also acted in line with the knowledge and instructions of our party due to this task. Our party made a plan to involve our comrades in this area in the organization of the 1st Congress and directed our comrades to move to another area. This is what happened.
Although this fact is known, we think that hoping for help from black propaganda is the result of not being able to organize itself on a revolutionary ground.
It is clear that the fact that any guerrilla force acts without evaluating the conditions and does not know how to withdraw when and where necessary means its destruction. Our party's guerrilla warfare practice has proven this fact over and over again. In short, our party withdrew its guerrilla force to another battlefield, and then, by sheer coincidence, the enemy captured the hidden military supplies. Using this situation hostilely, trying to prove its rightness by propagandizing the enemy's counter-revolutionary propaganda in the same way does not serve the revolution and the revolutionary struggle.
"OUR ARMY IS FOCUSING ON THE FORMS THAT WAR TAKES TODAY"
- At this point, I would like to ask a question about your party's current war reality. You announced that the Workers' and Peasants' Liberation Army of Turkey (TIKKO) held a conference. What would you like to say about TIKKO's work and planning?
- Yes, our party discussed the situation of our people's army at its 1st Congress and took various decisions. Among these decisions were summarizing our party's experience in guerrilla warfare and addressing some agendas such as the TIKKO Regulation.
Under the leadership of our party, TIKKO held its 1st Conference, which was the first in the history of our People's Army, with the slogan "Deepen in the People's War and Specialize in Guerrilla for the Victory of the Revolution!" Our People's Army in the Black Sea, Dersim and Rojava and in big cities etc. summarized the lessons and experiences of the guerrilla war it waged in every field, made decisions on a number of organizational issues, especially the TIKKO Regulation, and presented the lessons learned from its conference to the party will.
Our People's Army summarized the lessons and experiences of the guerrilla war it waged in every field in the Black Sea, Dersim and Rojava and in big cities, etc., made decisions on a number of organizational issues, especially the TIKKO Regulation, and presented the lessons learned from its conference to the party will.
Our party took a position and took part in the war against the invasion attacks of the Turkish state against Rojava. Our power, which was initially limited in number, has become more organized over time. It worked especially among the Armenian people who survived the genocide in this region, and organized their self-defense forces from scratch, first at the Battalion and then at the Brigade level.
Our people's army affiliated to our party continues both its own military work and its work among the Armenian people. While doing mass work and reconstruction work, it is also specializing militarily and improving its training. During its time there, our military force took part in all the battles from Kobanê to Afrin, from Raqqa to Serekaniye and developed its military capacity in war.
Today, the Middle East, where a certain force of our army is positioned, is going through a critical period. Undoubtedly, there has been no change in the nature of the revolutionary war. It should be noted that the existence of imperialism and the colonialist policy it developed together with local collaborator classes through semi-colonial or direct occupation in some countries of the Middle East has not changed the main features of the revolutionary war today, and has made the forces of revolution and counter-revolution even more prominent.
The region is experiencing an ongoing process of conflict between different forces, which is spread over almost the entire region. There is a strong possibility that these conflicts will evolve into a regional war with the provocation of imperialist powers. Within this, the military aggression developed by the Turkish state in the region with its expansionist and annexationist political orientation has made it a regional enemy in the eyes of the peoples of the region. Accordingly, the revolutionary war is being waged in different forms in different regions.
While guerrilla and militia warfare is prominent within the borders of the Turkish state, different forms of armed struggle can come to the fore due to the unique characteristics of the region within the borders of the Middle East it occupies.
The Turkish state is trying to shape its entire war tactics and strategy with the progress it has made in war technology, especially in drone and surveillance systems. With UAVs and UCAVs, the Turkish state wants to retain the upper hand in warfare.
In terms of the first period when the Turkish state started to use these tools widely, it must be admitted that the forces waging guerrilla struggle suffered heavy losses and experienced a certain difficulty until they understood the features of these tools and developed countermeasures. However, it should be noted that the revolutionary war, which was waged in different areas and in different forms, renewed itself tactically in the face of this and changed its entire mode of operation according to this new situation. This is an important development in the last fifteen years of the revolutionary war.
It has developed a method of warfare that can be described as squad warfare by turning the tactical equipment developed by guerrilla warfare in certain branches into the characteristics of smaller units. This style of warfare has become quite widespread, especially in the region, and has become result-oriented on the enemy. This style has become the current characteristic of the revolutionary war not only in guerrilla areas but also on all fronts where the war continues.
Our guerrilla force focuses on these forms of warfare today. In the last fifteen years, there have been significant and permanent changes in the forms of war in the geography where our war has been waged. Our army closely follows these changes and tries to develop forms of organization and struggle accordingly. The war in the region is especially between the Kurdish National Freedom Movement and the Turkish elements. The experience gained by the guerrillas of the Kurdish National Freedom Movement in this war is very important for other movements waging revolutionary war. We are trying to learn from these war lessons and practical experiences without any concern.
Our army conference is of historical value in terms of forming its own response to the changing structure and characteristics of the war. In essence, our conference focused on understanding the changing structure of the war.
"THE TURKISH STATE IS ONE OF THE MOST REACTIONARY FORCES IN OUR REGION AS AN OUTPOST OF IMPERIALISM!"
- What would you like to say about the upcoming process?
- It must be said clearly that the coming process will be one in which the Turkish state will increase its attacks against the people. The Turkish state will accelerate its real agenda, which is the enmity against the people, after its democracy show through the elections. The ruling classes, who first distributed promises to the people through the general and then local elections, will now continue their so-called rational policies at full speed in order to put the entire burden of the economic crisis on the people. Under the name of solving the crisis, those who created the economic crisis also aim to usurp the bread left on the people's tables.
The tendency of the Turkish state to further impoverish the Turkish society and to make the so-called minimum wage, which is below the hunger limit, the average wage will continue. This means that more difficult days await our people, especially in the economic field.
The Turkish ruling classes cite the international economic crisis and high inflation rates as an example to hide their exploitation and robbery. Since the sovereignty borders of the Turkish state are the semi-colonial market of imperialism, the economic crisis experienced by capitalist imperialism in the international arena of course also affects the Turkish economy. However, it must be admitted that the scale of the crisis in the Turkish economy is far above the economic crisis in the international arena. The reason for the high inflation rates and the noticeable decrease in the purchasing power of the people in the bazaar is directly proportional to the extent of the exploitation, robbery and theft of the Turkish ruling classes.
We are facing a complete robbery and extortion economy. The Erdogan government, which said to the people "give the authority and see the effect" with the promise of a false paradise, continued its policy of giving tenders and incentives and transferring resources to its own cronies and the continuation of the profitability of international monopolies. As a result, the people have become even poorer.
The anger and reaction against the further impoverishment of the people by the Turkish state is sought to be fended off with the most familiar methods, and the question of the state and its survival is never left off the tongue. The reaction of the masses of the people against the government is sought to be deflected and suppressed by racism and chauvinism.
We do not know if there is any other state in the world that uses the threat of collapse and disintegration so much and so often, but the situation in which the Turkish state finds itself and the sharpness of the existing contradictions lead to such explanations.
On the other hand, in the international arena, as the competition between imperialist monopolies increases, the sharpening of contradictions between imperialist states, the evolution of direct war, as in Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and the discussions of the 3rd Imperialist War of Division. This situation in the international arena directly affects our geography. The reactionary states of the region are trying to take advantage of the contradictions between the imperialist camps for their own interests.
The Turkish state is one of the most reactionary forces in our region as an outpost of imperialism. In accordance with this characteristic, it is preparing for a new invasion, especially across the border. It is in contact with all reactionary states and forces in our region. For example, despite the propaganda of the "oppressed Palestinian people", it continues its military and commercial relations with Israeli Zionism and resolutely maintains the policy of "prayers for Palestine, ships for Israel".
The Turkish state wants to turn the contradictions and polarizations in the international arena into an advantage for its own interests and is once again preparing for a more extensive campaign against Iraqi Kurdistan and Rojava. In this way, it wants to postpone the economic crisis and deep impoverishment at home and the reaction of the people by saying "fight against terrorism".
Although Turkish fascism propagates this invasion and aggression as a "fight against terrorism", it is clear that the issue is not only the regression of the gains of the Kurdish national movement. In the background of this aggression, on the one hand, there is the suppression of the reaction of the masses caused by the economic crisis of the Turkish state, which is becoming more and more severe and is now felt more and more in the bazaar market; on the other hand, there is the increase in the profits of the arms industry, which plays an important role in the capital accumulation of the representatives of the ruling clique.
But in essence, of course, it is aimed at liquidating the Kurdish national movement, which the Turkish fascism perceives as a threat to its existence.
The Turkish ruling classes want to continue their policy of benefiting from the competition and increasing contradiction between the imperialist monopolies not only at home but also abroad at the regional level. Just as in the beginning and continuation of the Syrian civil war, it is aimed to continue the examples of plundering the underground and surface resources of the Syrian people, dismantling their factories, stealing from oil to olive trees, etc. The goal of expanding the occupation both in eastern Syria and Iraqi Kurdistan is directly related to the greed and predatory class character of the Turkish ruling classes.
All the statements of the Turkish ruling classes and the national and international situation show that the Turkish state will increase its aggression against its own people and the peoples of the region in the coming period. It is necessary to be ready for this aggression and to continue the revolutionary struggle with determination.
On the other hand, as can be seen from the results of the last local elections, the working class and laboring people are reacting to the conditions imposed on them. There is a decline in the AKP's mass support. Although the people do not consciously realize the deep gap between the propaganda and the reality they live in, they feel that something is wrong. For this reason, the masses under the influence of the AKP have shown their reaction by not going to the polls in the local elections or by voting for parties that identify themselves as opposition.
The decline in the purchasing power of the working class and laboring people, and the fact that they feel poverty more, cause them to turn to the bourgeois opposition parties as a hope. The reaction of the people to the situation they are in is once again intended to be backed behind the opposition clique of the ruling classes.
For this reason, the people need to organize their own independent politics separate from the politics of the bourgeois ruling class parties in power or in opposition. Politics is a question of power. We attach importance to the masses organizing their own politics, independent of the politics of the ruling classes, and moreover emerging as a power. In this sense, we find the call of the working class, laborers, women and the youth of the people to the fields on May 1, especially the Taksim area in Istanbul, valuable and meaningful.
The reason why the spokespersons of the ruling class parties and especially the May Day statements of the opposition parties and an enemy of the workers and the people like the CHP come forward and try to play a role in the Taksim debate is that they see the reaction of the working class and the working masses and try to back them up behind their own clique interests.
All the establishment parties, with their ruling and opposition, have acted and will act in the face of the working class and working people organizing their own independent politics and emerging as a power, accompanied by fascist bans, force and oppression on the one hand, and "democracy" on the other.
In the light of these realities, our party, our people's army, our communist women's union and our Komsomol organization will continue its struggle against the fascist aggression of the Turkish state against our people and the peoples of the region.
- What would you like to say finally?
- The centuries-old anti-people character of the Turkish state is known. The Turkish state is a fascist and aggressive power not only for our people but for all peoples in our geography. Our party has continued its struggle against Turkish fascism uninterruptedly for more than half a century.
As we enter the 53rd year of struggle of our party, we want to reiterate to our people that there is no way of salvation other than organizing and struggling. Our party will continue its struggle with determination. The difficulty of the conditions, the heavy pressure of fascism will not be able to prevent the people's struggle for a better life, freedom and democracy. Because we know that as long as our party and the masses of the people exist, all kinds of miracles can be created.
On this occasion, we congratulate our comrades on their 53rd year of struggle and salute their determination to be a drop in the storm of the people in the coming period.
- Thank you.
- I also thank you on behalf of our Party.
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